What happens if ...

For discussion related to Ffenics 2.0.

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Re: What happens if ...

Postby KjetilUrne » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:45 pm

Here comes my constant drumbeat: Happy anniversary!
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Re: What happens if ...

Postby Mark Nicholas » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:03 am

Happy anniversary to you too Kjetil. I note it's exactly 10 years today since you joined!
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Re: What happens if ...

Postby KjetilUrne » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:01 pm

Hah! I wasn't aware.

Imagine, I've spent 10% of all that time waiting for one simple answer :)
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Re: What happens if ...

Postby andyclinton59 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:15 pm

Here comes my constant drumbeat: Happy anniversary!


But if we take a practical angle. If anyone that has 2.0 could enlighten us on how it works in practice?

Do you need to get a new version every time your subscription is up, or do you simply go on paying and nothing need changing.

What I try to say is there a built in stop date or do Ffenics send you a stop signal if you don't pay or cancel your subscription?

If it is the latter there should be no problem because Ffenics would just not send the stop signal, if it is first I would be seriously worried... What happens if you switch the date back? You might have to live permanently in 2017 ;-)
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Re: What happens if ...

Postby Pete Tabord » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:52 pm

andyclinton59 wrote:Personally I can't see that Pete wouldn't take the time to publish a "release key" before winding up or even after if that ever happened.

However I find that selling something that people rely on so heavily when they have committed to it only as a SaaS is very inflexible.

Surely a better model would have been an one-off fee followed by an annual or monthly maintenance fee for those that want updates. This way the need for continuous revenue for the developers is satisfied at the same time as the security of the customers.

They can of course offer it as a SaaS too. One doesn't necessarily preclude the other.


The only thing you have to worry about is if something happens to me :-)

We tried the upgrade route. In fact the driver for change was that most of our companies will no longer pay support at all, because, ironically, they say they never use it . I don't know why they bother with insurance either, then.

The intention is that you get a new key when the subscription is renewed - it is the key that 'expires'.
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Re: What happens if ...

Postby KjetilUrne » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:06 am

Pete Tabord wrote:The only thing you have to worry about is if something happens to me :-)


Indeed, I believe we all do!

We tried the upgrade route. In fact the driver for change was that most of our companies will no longer pay support at all, because, ironically, they say they never use it .


I must've been sleeping; I can't see how/when the upgrade route was tried. Personally I would be more than willing to pay a fair upgrade price. However, the fact that it took more than a year to have an official response to this topic has severely damaged my trust in Ff.

I don't know why they bother with insurance either, then.

The intention is that you get a new key when the subscription is renewed - it is the key that 'expires'.


The whole idea behind this thread is that 'unexplained parts' of the Saas-route is perceived as insurance's counterpart.
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Re: What happens if ...

Postby Pete Tabord » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:47 pm

I don't know what you mean by the unexplained part.
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Re: What happens if ...

Postby KjetilUrne » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:48 pm

Pete Tabord wrote:I don't know what you mean by the unexplained part.


Simply what I have been nagging about on FB and what's asked in the initial post:


KjetilUrne wrote:Under the new license agreement, the software will be deactivated 30 days after the subscription expiry date. In case Database Software Ltd is no longer capable of fulfilling its obligations, subscribers should automatically be entitled to an unlimited version:

What happens if Database Software Ltd. is unable to support Ffenics?
In the event that, for whatever reason, Database Software Ltd. (authors of Ffenics) are unable to support and/or continue the development on the Ffenics product set, then all customers who have a then current licence subscription for Ffenics are automatically entitled (under terms of subscription agreement) to an unlimited user, perpetual licence, for the Ffenics product for which they have a current subscription.


I have difficulties understanding how this should happen "automatically" and will hesitate to put my data at any risk.

Team Ffenics: please convince me that you have a bullet proof plan on how to ensure that my data is not going to be locked down in the event of some kind of disaster in UK.


In a worst case scenario; how will my soon-to-be deactivated app roll into a perpetual licence the day Database Software Ltd goes belly up?
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Re: What happens if ...

Postby Mark Nicholas » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:51 am

The crux of this problem is down to an expression in the small print, namely : "automatically entitled".

Being "automatically entitled" to something is all well and good. What the small print does not say is "will automatically receive".

That is what we are worried about : being sure to receive what we are entitled to, i.e. the Golden Key that will unlock the deactivation for all eternity.

Can someone at Database Software Ltd please provide us with the details of the method by which that Golden Key will be transmitted or otherwise made accessible to all those who will be "automatically entitled" to it?
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Re: What happens if ...

Postby Pete Tabord » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:46 am

It's not a golden key. It is an unlimited version (users and time) which is held in escrow and would be sent to all registered users in the event of a problem.
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Re: What happens if ...

Postby Gil Fleming » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:08 pm

If it's of any interest, here's the Experian opinion on ffenics' creditworthiness. Doesn't look as if their SaaS concept has had the money flooding in. Their submitted accounts show a negative net worth. Credit rating and credit limit both £0. :cry: I'd be interested in buying the business.
Attachments
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Re: What happens if ...

Postby Pete Tabord » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:58 pm

As we have pointed out before, since we have a policy of not borrowing money (not even an overdraft) then we don't get a credit rating.
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Re: What happens if ...

Postby Gil Fleming » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:06 pm

Pete, whilst not wanting to teach you the basics of a company's valuation, whether your business borrows or not has very little impact on your credit rating. The credit rating is a measure of how much credit, in the opinion of the experienced analysts at Experian, you should be prepared to extend to Database Software Limited. The figure they come up with is £0, which they qualify as "In our view this company is a very high credit risk. We therefore recommend you make full & detailed enquiries before offering credit. "
Another useful indicator is the quick ratio (aka the acid ratio or liquidity ratio). This is a measure of how capable your company would be of paying your creditors. A 'normal' ratio is 1. Yours is 0.54. None of the financial indicators for DSL are good. While you might be able to fob some people off with "we don't borrow, therefore we have a low rating", larger organisations might take the view "we cannot justify investing in x number of seats of this software when the supplier has such a poor credit rating.". They would perform a risk assessment and perhaps decide that their money might be better spent with a company that looks as if it has some resources behind it.

I've said this before but I'll repeat it because you seem to only visit the forum once every Preston Guild: DSL has a product that has the potential to be a market leader in RDBMS software, in the same way the DataEase could have been the leader in the DOS days. However, history seems to be repeating itself. The move to version 2.0 exclusively as SAAS was a move that was sneaked in and it was, in my view, a huge mistake. Someone has already posted that SAAS does not preclude the traditional 'buy an upgrade' model and I completely agree. To charge £16 per seat per month for a product that has no user manual (other than the scant help files) and, apart from yourself,have no internal expertise, simply doesn't cut it against the existing offerings. You only have to look at the lack of activity on the forum (especially 2.0) to see how much you have alienated your user base. You could easily (if you had a real dialogue with your customer base) release ELFs or libraries thereof which people would happily pay foR, along with serious and meaningful upgrades. Email functionality and native pdf generation should have been part of ffenics years ago. The forum is full of people complaining that the pdf converter was flawed. We eventually got fed up of waiting and have now perfected workarounds that are more secure than the ffenics 2 email system.

On the positive side, I am writing an app at the moment which, I believe, could help to sell many, many, many copies of ffenics. At some point, I would want to sit down and discuss how the app could be copy protected and distributed with a ffenics exe package. I'm guessing you can guarantee my safety if I visit the DSL office?
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