Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

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Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Charles Taylor » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:25 pm

Hi Pete

A couple of items for a wish list ie nice to have as opposed to must have. The first is the rectangle object properties. The line object properties recently acquired properties such as low shade, high shade et al. Could these be easily extended to the rectangle object? From a design point of view they would be a nice addition.

Secondly, and unrelated, deleted records can be tantilizingly "seen" in table view, in that one can see a gap in the line/record numbers where the record was. Would it be possible in Ff to have a type of (dos) ctrl F3 facility to view the deleted record which could then be restored by a modify action (presupposing that the form has not been subject to reorganisation)?

Just a thought ................
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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Mark Nicholas » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:21 am

My vote would also go to additional shade and shine properties for the Rectangle Object. The main reason for this is that Buttons find their way into applications purely as cosmetic enhancement because their display properties cover a wider scope than those of Rectangles.

Buttons have an Action property and therefore are part of the Tab Order even if they have No Action. They also have a Text property that is superfluous when used as a cosmetic background object. So they are definitely not the ideal candidate. In my view, substituting Buttons for Rectangles is a mis-use of the product. This mis-use is understandable because of the lack of alternatives, but at the end of the day, it should be possible to use the right tool for the job.

I have often found that removing/deleting objects that have been assigned a Manual Tab Order can lead to problems further down the line. Has anyone noticed that a missing number in the Tab Order sequence cannot always be reinstated? This reminds me of the 'Deleted Required Field in Interactive Header Syndrome' whereby the field cannot be re-used or reinstated because there subsists a Ghost of it somewhere that causes it to 'Already Exist'.

As Rectangles have neither Action nor Text properties, they should be the obvious choice but they _do_ need additional cosmetic features.
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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Pete Tabord » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:45 pm

Hi both

This isn't just an oversight - the 'filled shapes' such as rectangles use the Windows API to draw, and these have relatively limited facilities compared to say fields and buttons which we draw under our own control. I was going to have a look at this area anyway for 1.3, because there are some more filled shapes we could perhaps use.

I think the full set of Windows filled shapes is

Rectangle
Rounded Rectangle
Ellipse
Chord
Pie
Polygon

of which for some reason we only give you the first three. I'd have thought pie at least would be useful.

The Windows intrinsics for the above only permit you to specify border and fill color, and only Rectangle has an additional command to add an extra border for shading or shining. I suppose I could take over the drawing of these things (I could nick the code from Buttons and tweak it for each shape) but it would be a lot of work - do we think it is that important?

Note that even my rounded buttons don't have the full effect of the shine options because of the difficulties involved in working with shapes, especially those with curves in the borders. That is, if you are to use what Windows provides. If we are only interested in normal rectangles then it might be somewhat easier.

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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Charles Taylor » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:37 pm

Hi Pete

Its relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things - so I would put it on a very back burner. Any thoughts about the undelete aspect though?

Oh and Happy Easter bye-the-bye!
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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Robert Osinski » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:08 pm

Pete,

I don't think it's important to put a lot of time in trying to make rectangles do what we can already do with text objects. Text objects have a full range of shine and shade capability that can be applied to the border in order to create the desired visual effect. If you don't put any actual text in it you have a border (rectangle) that can be resized, shined and shaded to your hearts content. The advantage to using a text object as opposed to a button object is that a text object unlike a button is not in the tab order.
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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Graham Smith » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:29 pm

Bob,

That's exactly what I have been doing in DE65 and Ff and it works extremely well. Won't work for a circle, however, but I'm not sure what I would do with a 3D circle. Might be good for designing crop circles I guess - that would make Ffenics of more interest to aliens (the space kind, not the illegal kind).
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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Pete Tabord » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:38 pm

Secondly, and unrelated, deleted records can be tantilizingly "seen" in table view, in that one can see a gap in the line/record numbers where the record was. Would it be possible in Ff to have a type of (dos) ctrl F3 facility to view the deleted record which could then be restored by a modify action (presupposing that the form has not been subject to reorganisation)?


I'm thinking about it :)
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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Graham Smith » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:59 pm

We talked about deleted records over a year ago and you were thinking about it then too :roll:
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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Pete Tabord » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:32 am

:)

You know my objections to all this record number obsession [-X

Hopefully 1.21 will be done and dusted today, then I can stop thinking and start doing.
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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Graham Smith » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:05 pm

Pete Tabord wrote:You know my objections to all this record number obsession [-X

And I agree. But they are there and people presume that they have meaning. I even recall seeing a DFD database that actually used these numbers believing them to be system assigned sequence numbers. Worked great until they did a big cleanup, including a backup and restore - suddenly, none of the numbers were the same any more. What a mess.
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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Charles Taylor » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:35 pm

Hey Guys

A straight forward no you can't have or know it can't be done will do. Its just that those pesky users occasionally do
a heinous crime and delete a record accidently. Just wanted to help them - really..........
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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Pete Tabord » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:51 pm

Hi Charles

Sorry, you kind of stumbled on a long running debate :)

I intend to do something about recovering deleted records (that have not yet been reorg'd out of existence) in 1.3, but I don't yet know if it will a) be possible and b) what form it will take. The problem with the old Ctrl-F3 used like this is that it works fine in an ordinary form - it gets messy if subform records etc. are involved. Referential integrity, blah blah blah....

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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Pete Stobbs » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:07 pm

Charles Taylor wrote:Hey Guys

A straight forward no you can't have or know it can't be done will do. Its just that those pesky users occasionally do
a heinous crime and delete a record accidently. Just wanted to help them - really..........


Charles,

Why not have a field on your table called Delete_this_record. Make it a yes/no field which defaults to no on saving the original record. If the record is to be deleted change the no to yes.
You can then put a filter on form built over your table that just shows current records or a form that shows all deleted records etc, etc.

The point is though the records are not actually deleted

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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Graham Smith » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:53 pm

I have used the delete record yes/no before and there are some cases where I would use it today, but bear in mind that you then have to make sure that everything that references that form eliminates the "deleted" records. This includes not only reports, but derivation formulas, subforms, etc. It can be more trouble than it's worth.

One thing I have also done on occasion is to use a delete record button that runs a procedure that writes the record to a "deleted record" holder file first. This is handy under some circumstances because it allows you to keep track of what has been deleted and who has deleted it.
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Re: Rectangle Object Properties & Restoring Deleted Recs

Postby Adrian Jones » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:48 am

Why should un-deleting (necessarily) have anything to do with record numbers? That's old DOS think, isn't it?

It is simply the state of the record. (Well, maybe some RDRR entry stuff in there as well...)

Presumably 'regular' views (forms/aspects) and/or their datasource return only non-deleted rows.

Could you therefore not have the ability to display deleted rows, plus something to change their delete flag/RDRR entries back to not deleted?
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